Podcast #54 Jethro Burns to Gypsy Swing: Sims Delaney Potthoff on Jazz Mandolin & Tone

Join Magnus Zetterlund with jazz mandolin virtuoso Sims Delaney Potthoff, who studied directly with Jethro Burns and has been performing for over 30 years.

Sims shares transformative lessons from Jethro on soloing, guide tone lines, and the power of melody—plus his groundbreaking Sims 251 series of weekly jazz vocabulary videos. Discover how a random mandolin at a party launched a career spanning bluegrass, gypsy swing, and Django-inspired jazz.

Learn about building niche music scenes, choosing tone over technique, and why the 2-5-1 progression is your secret weapon for improvisation. Perfect for intermediate-to-advanced mandolin players seeking jazz vocabulary.

Resources for Sims:
https://sims251.com/

Show Notes

Topics Covered: 

Sims's Origin Story: From Guitar to Mandolin 

• Started as a guitar player, struggled with the B string and scale system
• Influenced by Carter family picking, John Prine, early Neil Young, and Graham Parsons era
• Found a bowl-back mandolin at a party in the late 1970s
• Played trumpet in a marching band as a kid (gave him scale knowledge)
• Woman who owned the house gave him the mandolin at the end of the night
• Learned from Jack Tuttle's mandolin book (oak publication)
• Jack Tuttle's alternate solos sparked interest in jazz approach

Meeting Jethro Burns 

• Went to Evanston, Illinois to buy a mandolin
• Music shop owner referred him to Jethro Burns
• Took the train once a week from south of Milwaukee for lessons in Jethro's basement
• Lessons were "way over my head" but recorded everything
• Jethro's philosophy: "It's a big old world out there and there ain't a lot of us mandolin players, so we got to stick together"

Key Jethro Burns Lessons on Soloing 

• Most important: listeners should know what song you're soloing over AND where you are in the song
• Play within limits, play chord tones without being pedestrian
• Use guide tone lines and scale things
• Don't let it be stiff or pedantic
• Use your ears to make sure it swings
• Know the melody before you depart from it (melody is crucial)
• Attitude over mechanics—studying is secondary to the mindset
• Famous example: Take Me Out to the Ballgame (Steve Goodman recording)
• Jethro substitutes C6 (which is A minor) over C chord
• Outlines the A minor chord clearly
• Full of Jethro rhythms and phrasing
• Takes G7 chord and plays up G, down F, up E minor—simple but effective

Berklee School of Music Experience 

• Attended Berklee studying with Matt Glazer
• Initially went as a fiddle player (not good at it)
• Matt Glazer's philosophy: know chord progression, know melody, know the LYRICS—honor the songwriter and what the song is saying
• Matt's powerful teaching moment: the sound you make goes out as a wave that never stops for all eternity—make it on purpose, toneful, and soulful
• Berklee was big on transcribing solos
• Transcribed Sonny Stitz solo, realized he outlined the chord the bar BEFORE it happens (not a mistake—intentional foreshadowing)
• Compiled tons of ideas: etudes, fiddle tunes in different keys, variations

Berklee Jazz Concept: 9 for 1, 6 for 5 

• Substitute the nine for the one or the six for the five
• Example: In C, using C9 instead of C, or playing G6 instead of G7
• Creates cool, jazzy sound without being overwrought
• Can be applied to various chord progressions

The Sims 251 Series 

• Weekly video lessons teaching 2-5-1 progressions
• Started about a year ago to compile years of ideas
• Approximately 5-minute videos with notation/tab
• Drawing from multiple sources: Sims's own phrases, Charlie Parker's lines, Jethro's approaches
• Philosophy: get vocabulary under your fingers so it's accessible in jam situations
• Learning in all 12 keys (C is one thing; E-flat requires different fingering)
• Website: sims251.com (includes email, YouTube videos, PDFs)

Why the 2-5-1 Progression Matters 

• Most common progression in jazz and swing music
• Simple in concept: A minor 7 (2), D7 (5), G (1)
• Beautiful on mandolin because notes fall down in fifths naturally
• Requires transposition practice to all keys
• Enclosure/chord surround technique: play note above, note below, then the target note
• Chromatic approach to jazz vocabulary

 Stone Oak Bluegrass Band 

• Started bluegrass band 2 years after learning mandolin from Jethro
• Played 200+ dates per year for about 4 years
• Traveled extensively in Wisconsin
• Introduced Sims to Bob Wills, Louis Armstrong, New Grass Revival, and Django Reinhardt
• Django Reinhardt became major influence (Jethro's main inspiration)
• Sims inherited one of Jethro's Django Reinhardt L pieces

Midwest Gypsy Swing Festival (25+ Years) 

• Birth of the festival: Met Robin Nolan Quartet in Amsterdam on tour
• Robin had Django shirt; started friendship
• Invited Robin's band to Wisconsin
• Cleaned out an old barn for first concert (two sets: Robin Nolan, then Harmonious Whale)
• Festival grew organically to 600-1000 attendees
• Current and past performers: Carlo Bergara (Argentina), Yoshio Stefan, Paulus Schaefer, Gonzalo, Dario Napoli (Italy), Alfonso Ponticelli (Chicago), Shauncia Lee Quartet (Madison), Hot Club of Baltimore
• Festival goals: show essence of gypsy swing connects to other acoustic, high-integrity music forms
• Upcoming: three-mandolin quartet (Sims, Don Sternberg, Brian Oberlin) with bass player
• Expanding genre while respecting traditions

Harmonious Whale Band 

• Sims's main performing project (30+ years)
• Wife Maggie: vocalist, percussionist (uses wine box on snare stand for tone), sings violin lines, does duet gigs
• Initially added Maggie to cover for violin player who got symphony offer
• Can sing and read complex violin lines simultaneously (rare skill)
• Plays Move (Denzel Best song) with Maggie's beautiful vocal and solo
• Frequently tour Ireland and Scotland as duo
• September/October 2026: touring Europe (Scotland, Prague)

Instruments & Tone 

• Plays flat-wound Tomastik strings (discovered in Salzburg, Austria during long European tour)
• Prefers warmth, roundness, and zip reduction of flat wounds vs. regular wound strings
• Magnus’s Phoenix Jazz electric mandolin (Maine builder, magnetic pickup)
• Octave mandolin (braces rebuilt, K&K pickup, Henrickson amp)
• 1937 Gibson TG-50 tenor guitar
• Instrument selection depends on song and vocal needs
• Wife (vocalist) inspires instrument choices—octave mandolin feels more guitar-like for duos

Philosophy on Tone & Practice 

• "Go for tone"—it's the priority
• Tone is how you're recognized (like Grissman, Sam Bush, Don Sternberg all have distinctive tone fingerprints)
• Terry Burns (Jethro's daughter) once said Sims's playing sounds like his father—highest compliment
• David Grissman changed mandolin tone for the entire world
• Influence of Grissman's Tone Poems (guitar and mandolin pairs, different players different sounds)
• Jethro's practice philosophy: "Play it till you're sick of it, then play it a few more times"
• Use timer (5-10-15 minute intervals) to force repetition and refinement
• When you get tired, you drop unnecessary notes and discover cleaner technique

Key Practice Techniques 

• Transcribing solos (Sonny Stitz, Charlie Parker, etc.)
• Learning tunes in multiple keys (D, E-flat, A-flat)
• Chord surround/enclosure technique: note above → target note → note below
• Understanding how open strings can be used creatively in different keys
• Focus on clean legato and articulation
• Rhythm variations (triplets, rhythmic feels)
• Hammer-ons and pull-offs vs. pick articulation (both valid approaches)

Influences Beyond Jethro 

• Django Reinhardt (primary inspiration via Jethro)
• David Grissman (tone, approach to mandolin)
• Clifford Brown (trumpet, transcribed solos)
• Sonny Stitz (foreshadowing chord outlines)
• Chris Thiele/Sierra Hull (contemporary mandolin innovation)
• Charlie Parker (harmonic concepts)
• Don Sternberg (tone, technique)
• Isaac Eicher (playing beautifully written reels with minimal explanation)
• Robin Nolan (gypsy jazz collaboration, friendship) 

On the Mandolin as an Instrument 

• "The greatest little instrument in the world" (Bob Wills introduction)
• Mandolin and guitar combination is the sweet spot
• Grissman's Tone Poems album proves mandolin adapts to different hands
• "I blame Jethro Burns for it. Had I picked up a Telecaster... but no, I'm playing mandolin"
• Mandolin cuts through when surrounded by guitars

European Connections 

• Three-month European tour with band (month in Ireland)
• Prague trip planned September/October 2026
• Friend in Prague with Czech-built mandolin (Czech builders are very good)
• Strong bluegrass/gypsy jazz scenes in Europe, particularly Scandinavia 

Recent Realizations on Mandolin's Era 

• Bluegrass festivals now: mandolin-heavy, less banjo and fiddle
• Newer jam-grass and bluegrass bands feature mandolin/dobro/guitar (no banjo)
• "It's our era, brother. It's our era. The time of the mandolin."
• John Moore (Chris Thiele's first teacher) teaching workshop in Sweden (where Magnus is)

Upcoming for Sims 

• Continuing weekly 2-5-1 series (considering what to do in 2027)
• Possible harmonica 2-5-1 series (chromatic harmonica as learning tool)
• Three-mandolin quartet arrangements (Sims, Don Sternberg, Brian Oberlin)
• Continuing Midwest Gypsy Swing Festival
• September/October European tour with Maggie
• More duo gigs (especially Ireland/Scotland)
• Collaborating with Magnus on 2-5-1 ideas and vice versa

Notable Recordings 

• Move (Denzel Best song with Maggie)
• Various ensemble recordings with band
• Joseph Joseph (violin and guitar arrangement)
• Collaborations mentioned but not detailed

Key Quotes: 

• "Jethro Burns said, it's a big old world out there and there ain't a lot of us mandolin players, so we got to stick together"
• "If you're spewing things into the universe, make it on purpose and toneful and soulful"
• "The melody is crucial—know it before you depart from it"
• "The tone is your fingerprint"
• "Play it till you're sick of it, then play it a few more times"
• "We're not really making things up. We're just kind of a conduit for music that exists"

Featured Concepts Demonstrated: 

• 2-5-1 progressions in various keys
• 9 for 1, 6 for 5 substitutions
• Chord outline/enclosure technique
• Guide tone lines
• Rhythm variations and phrasing
• Flat-nine sounds and chord surround
• Texas fiddle tune examples (mentioned but not detailed)

People/Artists Mentioned: 

• Jethro Burns (primary teacher, major influence)
• David Grissman (tone innovator)
• Django Reinhardt (major influence via Jethro)
• Chris Thiele (mandolin innovator, student of John Moore)
• Sierra Hull (contemporary player)
• Don Sternberg (fellow mandolinist)
• Matt Glazer (Berklee teacher)
• Robin Nolan (gypsy jazz, festival collaborator)
• Jack Tuttle (author, early influence)
• Sam Bush (distinctive tone/approach)
• Charlie Parker (harmonic concepts)
• Sonny Stitz (transcription subject)
• Isaac Eicher (contemporary player/teacher)
• Maggie (wife, vocalist, percussionist)
• John Prine, Neil Young (early influences)
• Bob Wills (Louis Jordan, gypsy swing influence)
• Terry Burns (Jethro's daughter)

Resources & Contact: 

• Website: sims251.com
• Email: available through website
• YouTube: Sims 251 weekly video series (with PDFs and notation)
• Weekly 2-5-1 progression lessons (free on YouTube)

Teaching Philosophy: 

• Tone first, technique second
• Honor the songwriter (lyrics matter)
• Know the melody before departing from it
• Transcribe great solos
• Practice with timer to force refinement
• Learn in all keys
• Balance between prescribed technique and feel
• Combine precision with swing 

Festival Details: 

• Midwest Gypsy Swing Festival (25+ years)
• Location: Madison, Wisconsin area
• Attendees: 600-1000 people
• Mix of gypsy swing and experimental acoustic music
• Usually September/October in recent years